05:02 – 35:13

Welcome to Ask Dr. Change. I’m Dr. Linda Ackerman. Anderson. I’m happy to have you join me today to explore how to seriously up level your leadership and consulting to transformational changes. All through conscious change, leadership. Welcome. Today’s podcast is a special event. I’m doing this with my life partner and business partner, Dean Anderson. We’re going today to talk about conscious change leadership.

35:13 – 01:02:23

I promised this deeper dive into the backdrop of all of what we’re talking about in this podcast. So we’d like to explore conscious change leadership to make it relevant to how you are doing the work that you are doing. But first, Dean, introduce yourself. Oh, well, I’m your life partner. That’s the good news. I’m Dean Anderson, and my main passion in life is development.

01:03:01 – 01:24:22

How human beings, how organizations, how communities, how our planet can consciously evolve. And so that’s been my life work since I was a little kid. I was a high performer world class athlete, swimmer and water polo player as a youth, went to Stanford, got a couple of degrees there. In that time were kind of my formative years about how do we actually optimize performance.

01:25:00 – 01:43:17

And then my interests expand from the individual to how we do in relationship, how we do it in routines. When we met, it was about how we do it in organizations. And currently my main focus is how do we do it in the world? I’m a lifelong learner. I love things like learning about regenerative farming, which is my current passion.

01:43:17 – 02:06:23

So we’re restoring 120 acres on our ranch. And I’ve got an awesome family. Absolutely wonderful. Well, thanks. So I want to start I’m going to ask Dean and both of us a number of questions and we’ll go back and forth in our dialog about this. The most important place to start, I think, is why conscious change leadership?

02:07:00 – 02:44:20

Why is it important? And I assume you mean by that why? I mean, what what’s the benefit? What’s the impact? Why does it matter? Well, it matters because if we’re going to do things like have a planet that can thrive into a future, and if we’re going to do things like make our organizations better, respond to our customers or our marketplace more effectively, if we’re going to evolve ourselves as humans and have left suffering in the world and, you know, more joy in family systems and school systems and increase our quality of health care and pick your thing about life, how do we make it better?

02:44:20 – 03:11:01

How do we develop ourselves over time? So conscious change leadership is basically that study of science and the art of how humans evolve as it relates to making the world better. Now, our focus, of course, has been on individuals and organizations, but we can put that focus anyplace. Absolutely. So what’s important to me is that for everyone to know that this is a body of work that we’ve been evolving and researching for over 40 years.

03:11:03 – 03:37:19

So I’m not even 40 years old use. So really, we have been trying and testing and learning and evolving and adding as we’ve proceeded throughout our careers and working with organizations and leaders. And that is. So let’s start with what is this thing? What is can’t just change leadership. Let’s take it a little bit at a time and then we’ll do a deeper dive into it.

03:37:20 – 04:03:09

Okay, Well, I’ll start. You know, the whole idea of conscious change leadership is each of the three words, you know, conscious change and leadership. And so if I think about conscious, what does that actually mean? Well, it means fundamental. Only waking up, you know, how do I actually see myself in action? So it’s turning the lens from out there and always task oriented and focused on what to do to turning attention in here.

04:03:10 – 04:22:10

So how do I bring myself to a state of conscious awareness so I can begin to actually see how my inner workings are working? Because out there there’s just a bunch of data, right? There’s things we see, smell, taste, hear, etc. In other words, our world comes in through our five senses and then we make interpretations of what we see.

04:22:12 – 04:43:12

Well, my interpretation determines not just what I see, but how I respond to the thing I’m seeing, the decisions I make. Ultimately, my behaviors and actions in reaction to those things I see. And so my internal interpretation determines the whole field of play about how I then engage in the world, which ultimately means the results that I achieve.

04:43:12 – 05:17:12

So conscious about waking up to that fundamental. And what’s so important about this is how much time and attention or value do leaders place on their own conscious development and their own awareness of themselves and the impact they have in the world around them. And as Dean is saying, how they interpret what’s going on around them in the context of organization transformation, there are so many dynamics to pay attention to in the organization, obviously the environment and then in the people making the changes happening in the organization.

05:17:14 – 05:42:20

And so it’s really critical being able to see what’s going on in the world and inside of ourselves, because what we’ve seen over and over and over again is leaders doing habitually, conditionally what they’ve always done without awareness of the fact that it’s not creating or generating what they need for the transformation. So raising their consciousness has been absolutely critical.

05:42:23 – 06:15:22

Well, it’s so critical that I don’t think you succeed without it, because otherwise what leaders will do is they’ll take their approaches from that. They might applied very successfully their entire careers to the things like operational improvement or developmental change or transitional change. And now they’re faced with transformation, which is a whole different beast in itself. And if I lay unconsciously, just automatically and unconsciously, my old approaches on to that transformation will then I’m limited by the fact that that tool that I’ve been using for developmental or transitional change, that method was great there, but it’s not good here.

06:15:22 – 06:39:20

And so I’ve got to, as a leader, begin to see how I’m actually responding to the transformation because that determines what I actually do. Absolutely. Well, let’s talk about what to do and look at the modes that leaders and consultants use. So the change part of conscious change leadership is all about having roadmaps that apply at all levels of scale.

06:40:01 – 07:16:23

Change is a process. It takes us from where we are to where we need to go. So how do we develop individuals? Because individual leadership development is so essential in this body of work. How about relationships? How about teams? How about departments? Organizations? Ultimately, the interface with the community. And so what are the roadmaps? The body of work in Conscious Change leadership has a whole curriculum of roadmaps that are tried, true, proven and continue to evolve as we discover new things that have to be incorporated into them.

07:17:00 – 07:38:00

So how do we conscious redesign the processes for change to actually be achieve the successes, the results that we’re after actually being achieved? Yeah, and one of the things that I would just hook on to what you just said is that all those roadmaps are process methodologies. What does that mean? Well, it means step and step and step, right?

07:38:00 – 07:58:04

So taking actions over time in some kind of sequence and it’s not that every change has the exact same process, but you’ve got to have a fundamental operating system that’s a process orientation so that you can navigate going forward as opposed to a static framework that I then say I’m going to focus on systems, that I’m going to focus on structure or staffing or anything like that.

07:58:08 – 08:25:05

Well, what’s the order? What’s the sequence? And ultimately, the reality of the transformation will determine the sequence. But it’s like the operating system in a computer without it, Excel and PowerPoint word doesn’t work. And so that operating system better be a process methodology. And that’s one of the really powerful points of conscious change leadership. That said, all those roadmaps are true to the actual process of how change occurs at those levels of scale, whether it’s team or organization.

08:25:05 – 09:01:05

Right? And we’re so many process methodologies or framework methodologies address what’s happening out there in the organization in conscious change leadership, the core methodologies and all levels of scale deal with what’s happening internally to people, the human dynamics, relationship and cultural dynamics, as well as what’s happening in the organization. It takes conscious awareness to design a process for transformation to succeed, and the methodologies are essential to point in all the directions of everything that we need to be looking at.

09:01:06 – 09:22:01

All right. So we’ve got conscious, we’ve got change and then leadership. Yes. And so for me, the really big thing about leadership is that leadership used to be based on leader is zero, right. And the command and control orientation coming out of the military, which is all great in a crisis, you need to know all of the clarity around roles, responsibilities, decision making.

09:22:01 – 09:42:15

Let’s get action right now. In today’s world, the dynamic nature of reality has so many variables that no one person, the leader, has the answer. It takes. It takes a tribe. It takes a village. And what that means to me is that we’ve got to co-create. We’ve got to collaborate together in a way that we’re all aligned to what we’re actually trying to produce.

09:42:15 – 10:05:13

And so what’s the leader’s job in that? Well, fundamentally, the leader’s job is to unleash the human potential, the people around them, and yeah, sometimes to be out in front, but sometimes to be way in the back, sometimes to be offside, right? To let people just do what they can do. And the orientation of leadership is not me now having the answer, but me actually being the facilitator of other people’s empowerment.

10:05:13 – 10:33:18

And that’s a radical paradigm shift, right? And a critical paradigm shift as well as that is leaders committing to do what’s best for the overall system, the overall organization in what we call the big win. Now people have their own individual agendas. I want what I want you want what you want. So many change efforts in organizations are led as silo efforts without any integration, without any collaboration or co-creation between them.

10:33:20 – 11:09:10

So the integration is essential so that each one of them is doing what’s necessary for the greater whole, for the best outcome for the organization itself. That’s a critical conscious paradigm shift because so much consciousness in leaders today is about, I want it to go my way and that doesn’t work. In a conscious change leadership approach. We have to do what’s best for the overall system as well as empowering all of the contributors throughout the organization at all levels to bring their best and to want to.

11:09:12 – 11:33:01

So how do we deal with so much resistance in organizations? How do we set up transformations so that individual stakeholders actually want to make the their best contribution to the good of the whole? Yeah. And if your leaders you know Boston in round and you’re now just the victim of that leadership and kind of sitting on your hands until they tell you what to do pretty hard to get people motivated empowered to own it.

11:33:07 – 11:52:15

But when leadership is embracing everybody’s talent to come forth, then all of a sudden people are kind of nudging the leader out of the way and say, we got this right. And that’s a, you know, one of those telltale signs that when you see that in a transformation, you know you’re going to be successful because you got people that have come out of the stands and now they’re actually on the playing field making a difference.

11:52:15 – 12:30:08

And so the whole idea of conscious change leadership is to have leaders and that kind of capability. And it starts with their awareness, which cycles us back to conscious, right? So think of the cultural implications of what we’re talking about. So addressing culture, transforming culture, it’s a core driver of successful transformation because every piece of this bringing consciousness, self-awareness, being change, bringing change modalities and leadership style, radical shifts is all producing the culture that will actually deliver greater success rates than we’ve ever seen before.

12:30:12 – 12:55:05

We call them breakthrough results, and that’s what we’re after here. Yeah. So if you’re going for breakthrough and you’re raising the bar and you’re trying to actually achieve something that’s extraordinary, and if you’re using today’s, you know, so-called modern approaches to change, where we’ve got that crazy failure rate that’s been stuck for, you know, 20, 30 years, around 60 plus percent of transformation is fail.

12:55:07 – 13:14:12

Well, why use those methodologies? I mean, yes, some of them are great, like change management, project management, very useful, but partial. You can’t drive your whole transform mission off of that body of work because it’s just too limited. And so the whole idea of conscious change leadership, I mean, what we ought to talk about is the accountability model.

13:14:12 – 13:34:18

Yeah, because it really points out what we’re addressing as conscious change leaders, like what are we accountable for in it? If you look at this model of the face of it, the four quadrants comes from a brilliant man named Ken Wilber, and we’ve kind of adapted this quite honestly, because when we found Ken’s model, we went, Wow, that’s the way we think.

13:34:18 – 13:54:03

That’s how we’ve been talking about this. And now we can put an end to Ken’s really slick, simple, you know, two by two matrix. And so what this model is showing is that we all as conscious change leaders have to address these four quadrants of mindset, our own and others, right? We’ve got to work with changing our mindsets and helping others do the same.

13:54:05 – 14:17:21

We got to work with behavior and skills, ours, everybody else’s. We’ve got to work with culture and we’ve got to work with the systems, right? So structure, strategy, technology, how our business processes, all of that is in game. We’ve got to do that and we’ve got to do it at all levels of scale. So the individual, we’ve got to work with relationships because of Betty and George over there are still fighting as EPS.

14:17:23 – 14:45:04

Guess what? That’s in the way of our transformational success. So we’ve got to work relationships, we’ve got to work teams and all the micro subcultures within teams and departments, right? We’ve got to work the organization and all those strategic change initiatives, and we better be attending to our marketplace or our customers or our citizens. Now look at the complexity of laying all that out mindset, behavior, culture, all the systems, all the tangible aspects of organizations and all levels of scale.

14:45:09 – 15:10:09

That’s a lot to pay attention to. That’s a part of building that conscious awareness and the capability of being able to witness complexity in action. That’s an essential capability in conscious change. Yeah. And how many times have you had clients or prospective clients say, Hey, can you make it simpler? Wait? A In reality, your reality in your organization is what it is.

15:10:09 – 15:37:15

It’s as complicated and simple as it and we can’t change it, and neither can you. So you want to deal with reality or the fantasy of simplicity. And of course, the fantasy of simplicity is going to shortchange your outcome. So let’s deal with reality. And so the interesting thing for me, Linda, is that all these years for us, it’s been discovering what we or even our clients are not seeing and then build something that addresses what they’re not seeing.

15:37:17 – 16:02:04

That’s been our journey for 45 years now, and the backbone of our whole approach is helping leaders see what they don’t see and consultants like us. And so the ability to lay out the complexity so that people can now say, Oh, now what’s on my screen? Now I can see what you’re talking about. I had a sense of it before, or I totally never saw it before.

16:02:06 – 16:25:23

And now with this modality and these templates, I can begin to actually see what may in fact be the leverage points to our success, especially when we put all that complexity together. Yeah, and just think about the evolution of the market. Even, you know, there is a time where you just never talked about culture that when we started you couldn’t use the word transformation, right?

16:25:23 – 16:49:23

Right. You used the word transformation. You were a hippie smoking dope in San Francisco. I mean, you’re just well, that’s too warm and fuzzy. Well, now it’s everywhere, but it does transformational work. Well, that’s an evolution of the market. And it used to be that if you were only well, not if the mantra was you only focus on the task, you know, Then we had the whole number of folks that are saying, well, culture strategy for lunch, Well, what does that mean?

16:50:01 – 17:08:10

It means that if you’re not addressing culture, all of your good work in your transformation is for not because culture is just going to eat it, right? It’s just going to slip right back to the old way of being and so now what we’re saying is, as conscious change leaders, you better be addressing the internal dynamics, right? Mindset is to the individual as culture is to the system.

17:08:12 – 17:24:02

You better be addressing the left hand to quadrants at all levels of scale. Right? So how does that department over there? There’s not really getting on board with a transformation. What’s their culture? What’s their mindset? What are they thinking that has them not see what they’re not saying? We’ve got to address that and bring it into our change plan.

17:24:05 – 17:55:05

And what modalities today do that None And a few. Very few. And at large, I mean, we’re getting towards executive mindfulness, right? Bringing it into the executive coaching world. So we were leaning, you know, learning oriented, very, very central, dealing with sponsorship readiness and those kinds of things. And if we look at the whole idea of transformation and all the complexities, there are many, many, many slices to the pie.

17:55:07 – 18:23:22

And so what we’re offering with this system of transformation, with conscious change leadership is the pie that embeds, includes, incorporates all of the pieces of the pie that do exist today, that are very valuable, contributing to the success of the pie. But we’re looking at how do we create, which we have done a modality that is the pie itself and all of the individual pieces that need to be developed.

18:24:00 – 18:45:10

And it’s highly doable. Part of the interesting way for me to think about this is how this evolved, you know, how we actually have created this over these four decades plus. And so, you know, all those years of I mean, both of us started back in the day when there really wasn’t so much even a change management feel.

18:45:10 – 19:07:14

There was organization, development, organization, effectiveness, kind of consulting arm, if you would, inside and outside of social psychology was. Yeah. And as we’re going back to the fifties, sorry to age us, but that’s not where you are. For me, I like seventies but, but with all that started in the fifties and then you and I really started to do our practices in the late seventies.

19:07:14 – 19:36:03

Right. And so my point about this is that it used to be back in those days that we’ve had a certain mindset and that mindset has grown and then in the in the eighties and you were the first to really define organization transformation in that first article around three types of change. But, but there are a number of, of the organization development consultants back then and with you as the leader of this, in many ways we’re saying, hey, there’s a different type of change emerging and what are its dynamics?

19:36:03 – 20:07:15

And we began to lend lean into it and realize that, you know, our current ways of operating aren’t sufficient for this. And then you and I kind of, you know, fell in love, got married. But our conversation was, what are we not seeing? And so 45 years later, we still ask that what are we not seeing? And so what we’ve done for all these years is go to projects, come back, take the learning and best practices, do the after action review and saying what was the client not seeing and what did we not have available to help them see it?

20:07:17 – 20:29:17

Oh, we need to now build this. And so what? A dozen training programs later, probably 50 different consulting interventions, 2000 pages of how to in the change leaders roadmap, you know a whole breakthrough coaching school like all of that has been built to answer the question what are our clients not seeing and how do we help them see it?

20:29:17 – 20:47:22

Because if you don’t see it, you can’t manage it or lead it or navigate it. And what’s critical about all of this and and having now a whole system of transformation, but not no period at the end of the sentence, because we’re continuing to be out there in the work that we’re doing and learning from from what we’re doing.

20:48:00 – 21:25:04

But the whole intention here is it’s now transferable, right? We’ve tried it, we’ve tested it, we’ve proven it. We’ve done this in so many public, private, large, small military, you know, and it’s now transferable. And so the passion that we have about teaching can’t just change leadership. This whole system of transformation is to further the whole field, to further the market, so that more success where we absolutely need it can be obtained and greater fulfillment in the work itself.

21:25:04 – 21:55:19

By learning to do this, the issue is people stepping in, leaning in to say, I want to be successful in doing this. It doesn’t have to be this hard. Yeah, so let’s make it pragmatic. So what does it mean on the ground again? So we think of conscious change and leadership. So for us in a in a, you know, a transformational effort that we’re supporting in any kind of industry, you know, whether it’s again, the military or something, you know, the retail business is that it all starts with helping the leaders see what they don’t see.

21:55:19 – 22:16:14

And so there’s a whole four day intervention that has up to two years of ongoing work with them helping develop their seeing. And so if you’ve introduced it all, I’ve been introduced it all to the whole idea of vertical leadership development. That’s a piece of this. How do we actually develop leaders over years so that they can climb the ladder of of the evolution of their own consciousness?

22:16:15 – 22:36:22

I think see a bigger picture, see interdependence, you see cause and effect that they otherwise miss so they can solve bigger challenges. So there’s a whole track there around coaching and development, self-mastery and on and on. Right. For leaders. And then in the change piece, you know, it’s a whole host of pieces of work that we could bring.

22:36:22 – 23:10:11

And I’ll let you speak to that because interestingly, the focus every organization has major projects. Some organizations are making the courageous move to take on transformation of the entire enterprise. Those require roadmaps. Those require methodologies to support ways of being that support, whether it’s at the enterprise level or the project level. Since so much of the work that is being surfaced as problematic is project oriented, The changed leader’s roadmap is our methodology.

23:10:11 – 23:43:10

And again, first tried and tested even before it was ever described and, you know, set in 1977. So that’s where the skeleton came out of it and started around that. So it’s been evolving, all of that all of this time. It’s been graying my hair all of this time. So the change leader’s roadmap is all about how projects need to be led, consciously led, designed, implemented, course, corrected to produce sustainable results.

23:43:10 – 24:10:21

So there are certifications now trainings in our toolbox, which, you know, I’ve mentioned before, beyond change management and the change leader’s roadmap, which are still very much in use as classics today, help to further describe that work. And then there’s the actual development so that one of the good news is of COVID is allowing us to put our leading transformational change program online.

24:11:02 – 24:39:19

So that we’re able to teach people around the consultants and leaders around the world. So there’s trainings that can be can produce the skills and capability and understanding of leading transformational project success. Yeah, so on the ground. So for us then, you know, in a change effort, we would take the project teams, right, whether it’s one project or multiple projects, but it usually is five or six different projects in a big transformation.

24:39:21 – 25:11:02

Take those teams, those team leaders, teach them that CSR, the Change leaders roadmap, they would get exposure to the ten strategies, a leading transformation through the LTC course, the leading transformational change course. We would then put consulting support to each of those project teams, right, while at the same time developing the sponsors through our sponsorship training to teach them how to actually sponsor transformation, not just throw it over the fence and delegate and go away, but actually be leaders of the project and transformation so they can, you know, get the support the teams need.

25:11:04 – 25:46:02

And so the point of it is, is that there’s one more piece there I want to add to your startup, and it’s one of the most exciting launching of launching one of the most exciting trainings that we offer internally in organizations when they have a lot of complex projects going on, is bringing all those project teams together into a launching change project successfully workshop where they’re actually doing critical work on why they’re going through their changes, how to talk about it with others, how to govern, how what the teams need to do, how to design their launch process and communications.

25:46:04 – 26:15:08

It’s very exciting and again, very pragmatic as they get real work done. And we emphasize launch because so much of the challenges, projects, experiences because they don’t launch well, choosing a project manager and a project team, typically very content oriented, is not adequate to setting a project up for success. And so the launch effort is again, pragmatic, tangible, real work done is an exciting additional piece, right?

26:15:08 – 26:32:21

So then in most projects you’d have a whole kind of work stream, if you will, of developing leaders, and that might just be the executive team. And so they’re off on a on a self-mastery journey using what we call our self-mastery curriculum in the form of a course called Walk the Talk of Change. And so they’re cascading that through the organization.

26:32:21 – 27:04:13

Meanwhile, we’re standing up and launching all our projects. Meanwhile, those project teams are getting educated on how to use the skill are. Meanwhile, we’re creating relationship between the sponsors and the project team leaders. We call them the process leaders. And so now you’ve got an integrated effort, right? And then meanwhile, there’s a whole leadership team. So if we go to the third step conscious change in leadership of basically given to the hat with two bills to it, to the organizational leaders, where here’s your operational bill, this is, you know, what you do in your normal daily job.

27:04:13 – 27:27:03

Now flip your hat around. You also have a job of being a leader in this transformation. So here’s your responsibility in that in driving the transformational messages around culture and new ways of being and working through your organization. So now there’s a development path for those leaders about how they coach, how they model, how they give feedback, how they communicate, how they engage people.

27:27:05 – 27:50:06

And so now what you’ve got is you’ve got the top of the house waking up and sponsoring differently. You’ve got the project teams actually running their transformational projects in a more effective way that integrates across all the projects linked to the operational leadership. And then you’ve got the whole engagement of stakeholders throughout the organization coming alive through a different way of leadership.

27:50:08 – 28:13:09

And so that whole system is part of the many prong fingers in a transformational effort. If you’re using the conscious change leadership approach. And before you jump in, let me just say, Oh, that’s overwhelming. It’s not overwhelming if you know how to organize it, because you can do a lot of that stuff together. And the point of it is, is the snowball begins to actually pick up snow as it rolls down the hill.

28:13:11 – 28:31:07

And then there’s a crescendo of motivation in the organization and is basically saying this is a cool idea and we’ve got this, and then it takes on a life of its own because you’ve moved the dial and all those different levers. So there is a lot here. We’re talking about a lot. We’ve gone out and tested all of this work.

28:31:09 – 29:17:18

What the the challenge to us is how do we actually attract the folks that want to actually develop themselves to be able to be skillful at conscious change leadership? We have for years talked about visionary leaders, visionary consultants, and that those are the folks. It’s it’s fun. It’s so much fun. It’s not the you know, the folks that wouldn’t entertain this work are not the folks that are going to take on this work, obviously, but those that are visionary, those that see the possibility, those that recognize, even if it’s just a hint that something else is needed here, how do we actually put that into place?

29:17:18 – 29:41:16

That’s the call to conscious change. Leadership is happening. You know, it’s happening. I mean, despite us or anybody else, it’s happening. And so if you think back to those, you know, seventies eighties is the focus was on change management just you know, a new kind of field and project management. And it was very task oriented and project management that’s organized the doing.

29:41:18 – 30:04:06

We bring change management in to handle the people. Now what we’re seeing in the marketplace is there’s more and more folks that are talking about, well, leaders. So we’re going from change management. To change leadership leaders need to be involved and we’ve got this whole arm of what’s happening in leadership development around executive mindfulness. So where people are now starting to turn inward and all that is awesome.

30:04:06 – 30:38:09

That’s the natural evolution. Well, the next evolution is to go big system and integration, right? We just describe a bit of that. And so that larger perspective is conscious change leadership where I’m actually seeing a bigger whole because I’m waking up myself doing my inner work to actually clear the lens of my own mindset so I can begin to see what I didn’t see previously and change my own behavior so I can step into a more co-creative leadership style and see more of the integrated process, the transformation path that is the next evolution.

30:38:09 – 31:00

It will happen whether we call it conscious change leadership or anything else. But why? Because it has to. The problems that we’re face in the world, in our organization, in communities today requires us to actually see what’s going on and then respond effectively. We don’t do it. We face plant. Yeah, right. So you can probably tell from our excitement about this.

31:00 – 31:25:20

We are very passionate, very committed, very much wanting to push the edge of the field in our capabilities, both for leaders and for consultants. So we’ve covered a lot of ground today and appreciate your attention. I would even encourage you to listen a second time to hear what you may not have heard the first time, because this work is very rich, very deep.

31:25:22 – 31:49:00

And also, please feel free to reach out to us if this prompts questions for you. The podcast is asked to change, so please go to ask Dr. Changed dot com and let us know your questions about this work and we will be happy to do additional episodes to support you. This we hope we’ve intrigued you around Conscious Change.

31:49:00 – 32:06:12

Leadership is the next edge of this profession. Thanks for spending some time with me today. I hope you gain some valuable insights for your work. Please send me your questions and challenges by going to askdrchange.com.