Welcome to Ask Dr. Change. I’m Dr. Linda Ackerman Anderson. I’m happy to have you join me today to explore how to seriously up level your leadership and consulting to transformational changes all through conscious change leadership.

Welcome. Today’s episode is a very special opportunity for me personally. I’m here with Dana Brighton. Dana is a very critical person in our field in the change world.

I met Dana when Dana was the Fabulous. Thanks, Linda. And I’m so thrilled to be here today. So I’m the founder of Bright and Leadership Group, and we focused on building leadership capability, cultivating high performing teams, building strong cultures for sustainable organizations.

And what’s really fun is that we’ve worked with organizations from Kraft Foods to Guardian, the Mayo Clinic, IKEA, all the way to startups, not for profit carve outs, even an Indian tribe. And what’s cool is the thing they all have in common is people. Because my purpose in life is connecting people with other people and ideas to transform their lives and organizations. So no matter the trajectory of my career, I have stayed true to that purpose and really lived along that.

So there’s so many fun things I’m looking forward to talking about with you today. Linda. So I’ll give you the abbreviated version. When I went to college, I studied accounting because I really wanted to understand seriously.

I wanted to understand business, right? Because I felt like, well, you know, they say whoever has the gold makes the rules. So I thought maybe whoever counted the gold, you know, maybe would learn about the rules. So I got into accounting, and then through a variety of circumstances, I worked at Coopers and Lybrand.

Then I went on and worked and I got at the beginning of the ERP movement. So just as computers were becoming more popular and a lot of organizations were taking their accounting software from being green paper to being online systems. So that transitioned me into project management. I ran a PeopleSoft practice and we were implementing PeopleSoft and I saw the value and power of project management.

But for me, something was missing in that, right? So we would hit and hit the implementation, but it was like, there’s something more. So that is really where I got involved in change management and recognized the importance of not just installing a change and getting that system up and running, but also, yeah, there’s people. And if people aren’t brought along and aren’t part of this process, that’s a problem.

So that started my transition, if you will, from just focusing on project management, really brought me into the discipline of change management. And then I also came to understand, while change management is incredibly important, focusing on that people dynamic culture is also essential. And for me that’s an element that it’s often left out of change work that is being done because culture is going to help or hinder your change efforts. So from my work in change management, I actually then really pursued my interest in culture and combined those, right?

So for example, I did a project with an organization where they were implementing any new strategy and wanted us to come in and do some change work and we said, We can’t do that because until you’re clear on your culture and you know where where that culture is going to support your strategy or potentially take away from that, we we can’t do the change because we need to understand your culture. So that’s kind of a little bit of my evolution and my passion. And I like to say the integration of all of that. So project management is about getting results, changes about the people, and essentially all of that combines into leadership, which is truly my passion because leadership is where it’s at that’s just great.

Thank you. So, where do you see the field going now? The whole. The change management field change leadership.

You’ve been deeply enmeshed in conscious change leadership with us. Where do you see the field going now? Is that a great question? It’s one of those where we all want certainty, right?

Like, what are the next ten years going to look like? And one thing I can promise everyone is more change. So where I see that field going is Linda, in one of the really, really helpful illustrations is how you explained the different types of change. That was an incredible for me, because if you just think change is change and you don’t understand the distinctions between the types of change.

Too many leaders are managing change that’s happening today, which is transformational change. Like they would have managed a change from years ago with just, just, you know, a little bit of a transactional change or it’s like a evolution versus a revolution. So I see more and more transformational change occurring. And as a result, the skill sets for that are vastly different from just a regular change management approach.

So I really see a conscious mastery of leader, the leader themselves and we’ve been kind of moving in that direction to some extent, I believe personally in order to be as effective as possible as a leader. It all starts with self-mastery and truly understanding yourself. How are you showing up? And in today’s world, I mean, there is like a little overview that I give in some of my sessions where I talk about the percentage of influence that your emotions have over the climate of that environment.

And it’s a staggering amount, right? So for leaders who are not managing themselves well, I see it’s kind of like they’re sliming the organization and their teams around them with their emotions and everything that’s going on with them. So part of that, the skill sets necessary for successful transformation. It starts with the leader themselves.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because part of part of a transformational change is you’re moving to a destination where you don’t really know what you’re where you’re going, right? Like, you’re kind of like charting a course toward the distant direction, but you keep people engaged based on energetically how you’re interacting with them.

And so if you allow all of the things that you’re experiencing to just spill out so onto others, that’s a problem. And I one of the questions I like to ask leaders is what are people catching from you? Right. So in this day and age, it’s it places and or whatever that people are catching.

I’m like, as a leader, what are people catching from you? Are they catching your enthusiasm or are they catching your frustration and the other emotions that might come along with that? So I heard Bob Johansen from the Institute of the Future say something that really challenged me, and he talked about how certainty is the enemy of the future and success. And I was like, What?

And he talked about the importance of being clear. So clarity is clear, but certainty, although we all crave it, it’s not possible. So that led me to think, Wow, so what are some of the skills? Well, I need to be really clear about myself, about the direction we’re moving in, things like that.

But it’s the certainty that we used to have in the past of leadership styles from years past. It’s not going to work anymore because of the amount of change. And with transformational change you can’t be certain about much. Yeah.

A So I feel like this is this is one of those self-management skills and it’s it’s an opportunity for a leader to create certainty where possible, but at the same time, be realistic. So I’ll give you an example. This morning I was talking with the CEO and his leadership team and they’re about to announce another kind of segment of a larger change. So that’s something really important I think is critical in today’s day and age.

We can have death by a thousand change messages. So right, like clarity about the overall direction. So when we started working together, we said, what is the big picture view directionally of where you’re going? You might not know all the details, but at least where, you know, where’s your Northstar?

So we’re about to kind of share this other dimension of that, that northstar change. And one of the leaders said, well, can we can we say this is the finish line, Like this is the final change? And I just smiled and the CEO was like, I don’t want to create a false finish, right? So yeah, So in terms of creating certainty, we all want to say that’s it, the change is done.

We’re we’re good to go. Now, what you can’t be certain about is that change is never going to end. Now back to how can leaders create that certainty? They can create certainty in how they lead, for example, on such and such a day.

We’re going to get together and I’m going to share with you what I know. And then on that date, whether you know something or not, you get together and you share what you know. But it’s a delicate balance, Linda, because on the flipside of that, I’ve also experienced times where leaders shared everything they knew as they learned about it and people got tired of hearing about it is like, just tell me when you really know something. I don’t want to keep hearing about it all along the way.

Yeah, so it’s back to certainty versus clarity. I say keep focusing on the clarity. Here’s where we’re going. Here’s what we’re doing, here’s where, here’s what you need to understand.

And then as the bits of certainty emerge, then they can share that. You default. So you, you’ve stepped into my next question, which is what advice, tips, guidance would you give? I’m going to ask for leaders and then I’m going to ask for consultants.

Given your depth of experience, what do you think leaders right now need to be cognizant of to be able to cope with the changing environment we live in? So one of my passions is questions and in the past it was possible for a leader to have a pretty good handle on everything that was going on and be able to strategically know how to respond to what was going on today. Because of the sheer volume and amount of change, there’s no one human that can know everything and really stay on top of it. And so if a leader does that maintain a mindset of curiosity and openness, they’re not going to be able to move forward and lead transformational change.

So I guess the skill set is curious or the mindset is curiosity, and the skill set is question asking. And just to build on that, this are not questions that are browbeating people into believing your point of view. Like, don’t you think we should do this? That’s not that’s not the kind of question I’m talking about.

I’m really talking. Yes, Yes, I’m talking about the questions as a leader where you’re really staying open to the possibility and carefully listening to what you’re hearing. So rather than coming in with a pre predetermined mindset, that curiosity in that question asking is a core skill. And so something I like to ask leaders is what’s the amount of your asking versus telling?

Because we and here’s why that’s important is because as an individual contributor, when you begin your career, you’re successful because you tell people things from whatever it is that you do, right? You’re accomplishing things. You’re delivering things. That’s why you get paid as an individual contributor.

But as you move into a role of a leader, you need to be asking more questions than you are telling. So for consultants, I guess I would share a couple things and I say this is actually applicable to everyone, but as a consultant, it can feel just really overwhelming in terms of like, what am I accomplishing? How am I helping move things forward? And you can know that, right, based on your timelines and schedules.

And I checked off my deliverables, but my encouragement to consultants is to keep a weekly win list because I feel in today’s day and age, there’s so much that’s happening, it’s really easy to start measuring yourself by what you haven’t accomplished versus what you have accomplished. And the only person who’s going to know all those things is you. So that’s interesting. There’s almost reticence to brag about yourself, but as a mentor of ours told us, we have no music if you don’t blow your own horn.

So it it’s very key to blow your own horn and to do that appropriately. So and you need to brag on yourself. If you haven’t kept a record, you don’t know what your accomplishments are. And the other beautiful thing about that is that it starts showing you patterns and themes throughout all that you’ve accomplished.

So it’s a wonderful way tracking your weekly wins of reminding yourself of all that you have accomplished and all that you are becoming. And the second thing I would recommend is maintaining a learning journal. So true confession. I love learning.

Yes. All the books behind my head. I read, read, read, and I indulged in quite a bit of random acts of learning. And while it’s fabulous to learn and be very open minded to all that you’re going to learn, there’s only so much time.

And so my encouragement is saying, What is most important for you to focus on and learn and then put yourself a learning plan together and figure out where is it that I need to invest more time in? You know, is it a I? Is it building on my communication skills? And you can pick a monthly or quarterly theme, whatever it is, and then go find the best resources and learn and grow and become the best in that area and then take on a new learning challenge.

So rather than just indulging in those random acts like, that looks like a fun book, be intentional about it, and so I would say that habit and intentionality are key. Linda But even more than a specific habit is the intentionality of the dot connecting. So the saying, where is it that I want to end up not just what do I want to accomplish, but who do I want to be or become? And then what are the habits that are going to make that happen?

And so the practice that is been incredibly helpful is reviewing what are my current habits, what are the things I’m spending my time on, and are they leading me in the direction that’s most important to me? It’s really easy for us to get caught in patterns and habits that aren’t serving the direction that we think we want to go in. So yes, I’m a huge believer in intentionality and structure and true confession. I kind of need it myself.

So my husband always thought I was a really disciplined person because he was like, well, and I back in the day, right. I had the Franklin Covey planner and I had all my list and organize. I was like, No, you have to understand that my back up, because otherwise my life is chaos. So it was more of a response than it was really good at intentionality.

But I’ve learned over the years I have to build in those processes and systems and levels of intentionality are things don’t happen, right? We don’t move in the directions that we intend. It’s the the waves of of life that take us in the direction it wants to. So I really believe in being intentional.

Yeah, I’m. Thank you. Thank you. And and so I’m back to my question, my passion for questions.

I literally have thousands of them. So my question collector and what I think amazing questions can do is really provoke new lenses, new ways of seeing. So that’s, that’s part of my encouragement to everyone who’s listening. Start building yourself a library of questions, right.

Like, what do you hear that challenges you, that encourages you, that makes you see something different? And I think that’s an amazing, amazing way of doing the self-discovery and observation that you were talking about. And so I am very fascinated about midlife transition and curious because I believe there is value in every stage of life. So the questions I’m currently kind of pursuing is what’s possible now.

The questions I’m pursuing is how to ensure that my life span and my health span kind of match. And the questions I’m pursuing are really how do I leverage all of what I’ve done, all of who I am, and bring that together to serve the world in a better way? So I’ve really been reflecting on that because I think that is that power of people over 50 and it’s an opportunity that I really believe people need challenged to think differently, not just about retirement and not just about, you know, I can’t wait to be done with whatever, but how can you show up with all the gifts that you’ve been given and who you are and what you’ve done and do something different for the world?

Yeah. So I have to set aside time. I believe that your calendar and your checkbook reflect your priorities. And I can say that I really value reflection, but if I don’t build that into my calendar, it doesn’t happen.

So I have like a monthly reflection actually, like put it on my calendar. So like the first of every month it shows up that these are the things I need to do and, you know, transition into a new month. I do that quarterly and then on a daily basis, I mean, am I perfect about it? No, but I make sure I start my day in with quiet practices and I want to want to talk about that.

Reflecting back to one of your questions, Lynda, where you were saying, you know, what are the things that leaders or change practitioners need to do today? There’s so much conversation right now about wellbeing, about overwhelm, stress, burnout. And I heard this fantastic definition where overwhelm or burnout occurs when demands exceed your resources. And that was really profound to me because that made me start thinking right back to the questions Where did those resources come from and where did the demand come from and how do I help resource myself better?

So back to my habits and routines I’ve been really reflecting on what are the things I need to incorporate into my life habits, rhythms, patterns, questions, reflection in order to ensure that I have the resources to meet the demands that are coming my way. And I feel like too many times, whether it’s a leader or a change consultant, it’s really easy to sacrifice ourselves on the altar of delivery or accomplishment or resolve. And so you’re left in a crumpled, disastrous mess that takes ten times as long to recover. Right?

I’m sure you can think of many times that’s happened to you. I’ve done it right where it’s like you just pour all out and you are so invested and whatever that external thing is you’re responsible for and you’ve done nothing to nourish yourself. And so I feel like that is one of the critical skills is being able to set the boundaries, to say, here’s what I need and what you need may be different than what I need. And that’s okay.

But the reality is, you know yourself, so set the boundaries, set the rhythms. And so back to my daily routines is really paying attention to what nourishes me, what brings me joy, what are the practices I need to step into a situation as a resource as possible. Linda That sounds like I’m doing a really amazing job. I will confess there are times, right?

I’d just had this situation last week where I was meeting somebody for the first time and I had not appropriately resourced myself, meaning I was not in that mindset to really engage in the way I needed to. I powered up on this person and I was like in it to show them how smart I was. And at the end of the conversation I was like, What just happened? I said to myself, Right, like, that was not me.

I did not show up the way I wanted to and recognizing that I had not taken the time to slow down, be reflective and prepare to show up and do my best. So that’s the difference, right? If we don’t resource ourselves, if we don’t do the things, the practices and the habits, then we do a less quality job. We don’t show up as ourselves.

And so the world’s not getting our best work. Yeah, yes, yes. But Linda, if I can point out there, so this is one of the myths that people have. They talk about work life balance.

So let’s do some myth busting, if you will. I don’t believe in that. So what I believe is that we have to harmonize our work life and our personal life and in harmony. Right.

It doesn’t mean everything’s sounds the same in harmonies. There’s highs and lows. You know what I mean? In order to have beautiful music.

So that to me is a really important practice, is just recognizing the harmony of life and making the choices that you need to live at your best and show up as your best and do your best work. So when I got my master’s in organizational leadership, my whole thesis was on something I called Holistic Leadership and Micron’s step two was being all of who you are, bringing your whole self fully integrated because that’s how you show up and your best and strongest way. So rather than leading from a small little sliver of who you are, when you can do it from a fully integrated self, it just shows up more authentically and more powerfully and you can sustain that better.

Yes. So it actually connects to a fascinating skill that I’ve been kind of turning over into in my head. So you were asking before about, like as a leader, as a change professional, what are some of the skills that we need to have? So I’m not going to tell you it’s A.I.,

although I think AI is amazing. The skill is it really connects to transition capability. So do you have mastery of your capability to move through transition? And can it can you do that right, whether it’s through moving, whether it’s a new technology.

So there’s all these changes that are going to be thrown at us. Right? And so that would be my challenge. To your listeners.

Are you mastering your transition capability now? One of the ways that we’re mastering our transition capability is in I, I guess my biggest learning was that it is not something that goes out and retrieves things for you. It’s actually a thinking partner. So it’s been a really big mindset shift for me to to work with it in the context of how do I use it like prompt it and engage with it in such a way that it’s bringing out the information that I need so then I can take my creativity and continue to improve it.

So I feel the air is not going to eliminate jobs. What I does is kind of the base work and by engaging with it, well, that base work, then we can bring our best and highest self to transform it. So whether it’s in like creating a communication plan, right? So how many times as part of an overarching change project, right.

You’re sitting there and you’re like, okay, I need to figure all this out. It’s like you can just interact. And here’s another cool thing that I’ve been using it for is actually having an interview. Me So you can have, you can set up AI and give it a context and say, we’re going to work together to accomplish whatever it is, whether it’s telling a story.

So one of the things that we’ve been working on is putting together client success stories of some of the great work that we’ve done and the results we’ve helped clients achieve and those are always really hard to remember and figure out like, what is it that I did? I don’t know. So I tell I, here’s who you are, you know, you’re interviewing me one question at a time. You ask me a question, I tell it the answer, and we go back and forth and then it writes a story for me.

So, yeah, it’s been really fun. So right now we’re using the paid version of with some prompt engineer tools that were kind of like custom built and created. And the reason for that is because we’re programing and putting all of our learning and our insight and our IP into it in order to leverage that. So there’s a lot of neat applications for it.

I see that I doesn’t take the place of people, I mean, use it for what it’s worth. It’s really about leveraging it. It’s data analysis and analysis and aggregation, right? So we do a lot of work with organizations and assessing culture, for example, so we can get a ton of data back.

And what I believe the value I provide to my clients is not how well I analyze the data, it’s the insights that I bring them from the data analysis. So in the past, where it could have taken me two or three days to go through a process all the numbers and say this, plus this, yeah, then we’ve got this and really make sense so that I have insights and then I can take those insights and make recommendations. I can magically take all of that data, do the synthesis. Now you have to double check it because it can have hallucinations, which means providing false information back.

So we always double check everything to make sure it’s tracking and figuring things correctly. But because it does all that data crunching for us, we can just take the output and say, All right, now that we have these insights, let’s have the conversation with the clients. So we’re doing meaningful work versus all the the analysis. That’s a great question.

Depend depends on what the tool is. And you know, it’s so if it’s just crunching data, probably not. But there are some tools that we use in terms of recommendations from the culture work, and that is, you know, very specifically and clearly I generated it because here’s here’s one of the reasons, and I think this is a great conversation in terms of the ethical boundaries, right? Like, what do you what do you need to talk about?

So in my view, do using a I in that fashion is sort of like taking a bunch of data and putting it in a database and having the database crunched some scenarios for you so that you get information back. So I’m using it not to like give the recommendations, but in order to enable me to more rapidly reach a point of insight and awareness. So then I can go do the work with the client. Yeah, yeah.

But if it was the one making the recommendations, I think that ethically you should probably be disclosing that. So a couple of things come to mind. There’s one particular situation. It’s a leader who’s a who’s encountering a change of a magnitude he’s never experienced before, and he’s never had an unsuccessful change that he’s encountered.

And so I’m very concerned because there’s almost a hubris or an overconfidence in their belief that they’re able to handle the change. So that, I believe, is something that’s going to hold them back from achieving the level of success that they could and see. That’s part of the challenge, Linda, is like, what? What is success?

Right? So if you get to installation, if it’s a new system, well, the systems end. So it must have been a good change, right? Well, how much more successful could it have been?

Right. And in this case, it’s a very significant organizational change. I don’t think they’re ready for it, but they don’t know They’re not ready for it. So that’s one issue.

And I feel like that ties back to the point we were talking where curiosity is really key. What don’t I know right? So the overconfidence. So questions are a key part of that.

And one of the reasons I’m passionate about questions is because questions open the mind, answers close the mind, which is why if I’m as the consultant, just tell tell telling that telling the client what they need to do that gets me nowhere. So the goal is to open their minds. And that comes from questions. Another quote that I love is that people may agree with your opinion, but they only act on their own opinion.

And so how do I ask the questions that unlock their mind enough to create some curiosity that help them wonder what they don’t know or what might be possible? And so one of the ways in the Change leader roadmap, there are some excellent questions, and I’ve actually used that with a leadership team so that I’ve asked them the questions, you know, what kind of change are you going through and how are you prepared, you know, and just asking them the questions and guaranteed. When you ask a leadership team a series of questions, there’s always inconsistencies. So being able to bring that data back to the team and say, hey, I had this conversation and everybody some people think it’s this kind of change something.

So what really is it? And then that opens their mind to the conversation. What most people are resistant to is data that isn’t their own. So that’s what I love about the questions and the change leader roadmap is I’m able to bring those in to the situation and through those converse the conversations with the questions that lead to their own answers that show that the disparate points of view that starts the conversation and yeah, so that’s that’s one of the roadblocks holding holding leaders back.

Now, I would also say something that I’ve been curious about and exploring is this idea of fear of other people’s opinions. And it’s a mind set. Yes. But there’s also and so here it takes a couple of different forms, right?

It can be the leader who’s very prideful to cover that up. Right. Or it could be somebody that’s insecure. So there’s all different manifestations of it.

But I think it’s quite fascinating when people are more driven by what everyone else is thinking rather than being clearly tuned into themselves. And so one of the antidotes to that, as I’ve been researching and learning, is being truly clear on your own purpose and or excuse me, your own identity. Like who am I? Like really clear on that.

And then purpose, right? And the purpose bigger than yourself. So for a leader who’s wanting to make a change, it’s not just I want to make a change because it’s successful. I want to do this transformation because it really matters why does that matter?

What’s the bigger picture? How is it going to benefit the world, your team, your, you know, asking it at that level and really being tuned in helps you break away because more than ever, I think we’re being assaulted by other people’s perspectives and points of view, and a lot of them are not worth listening to. And so if you’re not truly clear and aligned within yourself and you’re able to disregard the things that can be disregarded, I mean, you need to stay open to listen and learn. But I’m saying there can be the higher you are in a leadership position, the more brutal those conversations can be.

Yeah, yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Yeah. And it’s it’s and you know, that whole conversation we were having about shifting as you’re getting older, you get to have new questions.

You get to have new ways of thinking, right? Instead of focusing on I am what I do, which is around achievement or I am what other people say I am, which is your image, right? Or I am what I have my status and possessions right? Or I am what I control my power.

It’s like the opportunity to move beyond that and get clear about your identity at a different level and then operate from that space. That’s an excellent question, Linda. And in full transparency, that’s something I feel like I’ve been in my pursuit and curiosity, something that I’ve really been reimagining. So I can’t say that I have any like instant statements right now.

I’m really trying to shift away from, you know, connecting who I am with all that I’ve done, right? You mentioned that idea of fulfillment because you can lean your success ladder against achievement, but achievement is not the same as fulfillment. So yeah, I’m part yeah, exactly. Yeah.

And it’s a transition because I believe like your first few decades is really where that, you know, where we start learning. That’s where our worth comes from. And then you spend the rest of your life unlearning that what not to do. Yeah.

So that my mentor always said the first sale is to yourself. So having that inner confidence that you you are good enough that you know enough and that you can show up and deliver great value. Right. Because it’s not I don’t feel as a consultant, I’m necessarily paid for the solutions I create.

I’m paid for the value that I create and that can evolve and look differently depending upon, you know, what you’re doing and who you’re working with. So it’s a really interesting question in terms of how you perceive yourself when you show up with your clients, right? So it needs to be as a peer. It needs to be I’m bringing you value.

It needs to be I’m curious and listening, and I’m here to help. And the other thing that can hold consultants back is the need to see their solution, their answer, their whatever implemented. It can be so frustrating, right where you know the right answer. It’s like and one of the reasons I love serving as a consultant is because I’m addicted to learning.

I love learning and for me, my passion of being a consultant means I’m in lots of different environments. So I’m learning constantly in all these different places and spaces from different leaders. And so I bring value. I want to share with you these amazing things that I’ve learned.

And a lot of times people are resistant, right? They’re like, Yep, thanks, that’s great. So it’s important for consultants not to get despondent because the solution they knew was going to be the right answer is not what the client followed. Yes, yes, yes.

And so if you think of yourself as a guide and the support and you bring forward, you know, here’s some different options and here’s the potential consequences. And remember, they get to choose, right, because they are living with the consequences of their choice, not you. And they’re they’re paying me for the value. And the value I create is not necessarily them implementing my solution.

But that’s a sticky point that I find a lot of people get frustrated with. I yeah, I’m going to tie that into my recommendation for the Learning Journal. So again, definitely everyone, I highly recommend you keep your weekly wins because over time you will be in awe of all that you’ve accomplished and it will share more with you about yourself. But the Learning Journal matters for this reason.

I think it was in Qatar’s leading change and it has nothing to do with change and everything to do with leadership. It’s the last chapter and it’s my favorite. And he talks about compounded learning, which is the first time I’d ever heard that concept. And I love it.

So here’s the idea that just like you put money in the bank and over time it expands, right? It compounds because of the interest rate. When you invest in your learning and invest in your growth and invest in your personal change and transformation that compounds over time so you can transform yourself through your learning. And so that’s my encouragement to all of your listeners, really invest in yourself and your learning because it can take you places that you never imagined and dreamed.

Thanks, Glenda. It was a delight. And maybe next time I can ask you some questions. Today’s subject is one of the key topics that we feature in our leading transformational change online program.

If you’d like to learn more about leading transformation social change, go to beingfirst.com/LTC. Thanks for spending some time with me today. I hope you gain some valuable insights for your work. Please send me your questions and challenges by going to askdrchange.com.